We've been taking poems two at a time lately, each pair thematically linked. How about Arnold's poem and Larkin's poem? Do they reflect the same outlook? What are they "about"? What do you think the tone of each poem is, and how does it influence interpretation?
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26 comments:
Hmm, these poems are interesting. I guess I’ll take a crack at them. (Oh, and sorry if I seem so wordy. There’s a surprising amount to say about poetry.)
Both Arnold and Larkin’s poems begin in bouts of imagery. “Dover Beach” describes a night scene at presumably the shore at Dover. This beginning is slightly more lyrical and flowing than “Church Going,” as the latter begins at the speakers’ cautious entrance into a quiet, rather stifling church. Nevertheless, both poems set up a specific scene and develop into deeper, more abstract musings of the speaker. The reflections of each speaker reveal their similar worldly perspectives.
The speaker of “Dover Beach” utilizes the scene he first established to transition from traditional imagery-based poetry to the underlying values of the sea’s “melancholy, long, withdrawing roar.” The ocean, he argues, is like “The Sea of Faith,” perhaps the core ideals of religion and morality, as “faith” is a word often used to describe such topics. This “sea,” and consequently religious faith, has weakened to a point of “retreating.” The speaker emphasizes this point beforehand by introducing the thought by Sophocles that the pounding waves reflect “human misery.” This is true, the speaker somewhat agrees, but at the final line, “[w]here ignorant armies clash by night,” the speaker argues that the waning of faith and misery of humanity is man’s own fault. Humans blindly (“by night”) fight in ignorance and thus bring about their own destruction and deterioration of faith. The tone of “Dover Beach” is one of quiet, yet not quite peaceful, resignation. Several words, such “grating,” “naked,” and “fling,” seem rather out of the ordinary, disrupting and otherwise even flow to exude this strange and helpless emotion. The reader can feel this emotion in the speaker’s words, and is reduced a similar feeling of reverence.
The outlook of the speaker of “Church Going” is similar in the fact that he too believes the church, and therefore religion, is becoming unnecessary. This speaker, however, goes a step further into wondering at what comes beyond faith’s final descent, what will become of “[t]his special shell.” Another difference is the tone the speaker portrays throughout the poem: an oddly irreverent view that dismisses religion and churches as places for “marriage,” “birth,” “death,” and the “Christmas-addict.” The speaker of “Dover Beach” seems more melancholy at the decline of faith, the speaker of “Church Going” treats it more with a shrug. But as usual, this shrug is not all that exists in the mind of this speaker, for it still “pleases [him] to stand in silence” before the church. He notices that there is something more about a church than a building of “tense, musty” silence. He finds that there is a “hunger in himself to be more serious,” an aspect the speaker of “Dover Beach” seems to dwell in constantly. Thus, a reader may follow the lines of “Church Going” with kind of a nonchalant nature, like reading a book, but be suddenly thrown into seriousness at the last paragraph. Whereas “Dover Beach” remains in a solemn state throughout. This is a major difference between the tones yet similarity of outlooks for the two poems.
I thought we were supposed to leave a quick comment or question to show that we had read the poems over, and that we were going to analyze them later when we do the questions, no? Tell me if I'm wrong.
Both of the poems are centered on belief. I see "Church going" as more formal than "Dover Beach." The diction is more sophisticated, which I thought contributed to a sort of self-righteous tone. I think that contrasts with the tone Katie picked up, but I probably didn't spend as much time on it as she did, so perhaps it's more accurately irreverent. I don't quite understand each of the speakers' views on the matter at hand though. I think Larkin is saying that the church will always have a place because "someone will forever be suprising a hunger in himself to be more serious," but he doesn't think it holds the significance it is thought to. "Dover Beach," on the other hand, focuses more on the fading of the faith as a result of our own "alarms of stuggle and flight."
Bryn - I thought so too...
Dover Beach seemed to be a comparison between the sound of the ocean and faith. It is quite dark and dreary with the speaker saying that the world appears to be inviting and hopeful but really contains no joy or peace. He is mourning the loss of faith, something that used to be so prominent and full of hope but is now dying out.
The speaker in Church Going did not seem as concerned with the way the church is becoming less of a sacred place until the very end. He noticed that even he himself is not sure why he stopped at the church and admits that people mostly use the church to observe holidays but have no other attachment in their faith. I agree with the Bryn about the speaker believing the church will always be around, because people will find in themselves the desire to find hope.
The speaker in Church Going visits the church is passing and notes that "the place was not worth stopping for" (line 18). To me this shows that he is not an avid church goer. He is not there to go to church, it is not a Sunday ("sprawlings of flowers, cut For Sunday, brownish now" line 4-5), he visits the church almost as habit from childhood. Just as he takes off his hat, cycle clips, and donates his money. He isn't sad to see the loss of the traditions of church and religion. He speculates at how the future might be, with cathedrals being more like museums. I think the tone of this poem could be categorized as careless. The way he feels is uncomfortable with the "unignorable silence" (line 7).
Dover Beach, like Church Going, is about the loss of religion and faith, but unlike Church Going the speaker is saddened to see these things fade away. He reflects on past explorers that may have seen this coast as a s spiritual experience. In the third stanza the speaker talks about the "Sea of Faith" once being full but now is "withdrawing". I think the tone of this poem is regretful for the lack of religion.
Does anyone understand what it is meant in Church Going by "pick simples for a cancer"?
With every age, there is loss of some sort. Both poems pay homage to the loss of an all-encompassing certitude, based in the religious state. Church Going and Dover Beach share structure - both poems contain description first and philosophical reflection next. They are reflective poems.
The ebb of religion, in the opinion of the speaker of Church Going, is occurring in the present, and because of that the tone is more urgent. Not nervous, but immersed in what is an apparent decline of the church. After his time spent in the church as "bored, uninformed" and yet "please[d] to be standing in silence here" he feels "at a loss". He contemplates the person that will be the last to visit the church. Because the tone is melancholy and the subject matter evaluative, the end - as Katie points out - is surprising. The "seriousness" she identifies is that the speaker values the church as somewhere to reflect and find inner will.
I see Dover Beach as a painting of religion and philosophy that is a broad landscape. The imagery of the sea, begun with a literal description of the ocean is extended to the life of religion in the world. "The Sea of Faith" is at a low tide to this speaker. The loss of religion has removed all that is comforting and left people "on a darkling plain". This poem is more negative throughout. As Katie says, the word melancholy is all pervasive, there is no inkling people will discover things that "can never be obsolete" (Church Going).
I would love to spend more time with these poems and come to a deeper understanding. (I'm glad we will be discussing them in class.) But for now, these demonstrate I have read and thought about the poems. Now for 17th birthday revelries!
I really enjoyed this pair of poems, especially "Church Going". As several people have said, they both share themes of lack of faith, with philosophical musing at the end of each.
The speaker of "Church Going" keeps coming back to the church out of habit, hoping every time to feel something; when he doesn't, he's disappointed. I thought that his description of the church as an "accoutred frowsty barn" was very interesting--he considers the church to be nothing more than a dressed-up, nothing-special barn, and this shapes his prediction that the church will someday be nothing more than a ruin that inspires legends and ghost stories. I think that the line "Pick simples for a cancer" means that the speaker believes people will view the church as sort of a wishing well--superstitious people will enter it to perhaps leave a message on the wall or pick up an ancient relic in the hopes that their wishes will be granted.
I thought "Dover Beach" was very different. Larkin's tone was a great deal less melancholy and forlorn; he was more sardonic, and I imagine the speaker saying the poem while shaking his head and shrugging. The speaker of "Dover Beach" expresses more sadness for his lack of faith and his feeling of lost-ness (gah. my brain is fried and I can't figure out the noun for lost), and it seems as though he honestly wishes he could have strong belief and blind faith. Without this faith, he feels adrift, alone, and lost in the world.
What we make out of beaches or churches makes them what they are to society and individuals alone. "Dover Beach" looks at how majestic the beach is and "Church Going" does the same for the church the speaker is in. Both poems also reflect how they can be so powerful and also meaningless, "to lie before us like a land of dreams...hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light..."(31, Dover Beach).
The tone in both poems seemed sorrowful, I'm not sure that's the right word I am looking for but I needed something to call it. In "Church Going" the speakers sounds like he feels bad for this church. It has lost a lot of meaning and he thinks that with time it will have "a purpose more obscure", its saddening. In "Dover Beach" the speaker addresses the beach as "melancholy" and that sets the tone for the rest of the poem but he also says in the last stanza that there are a lot of emotions the beach can hold yet really none at all. I thought that was really interesting.
Sorry guys, I was in my junior conference when JD was explaining how to do this...it looked like a normal blog to me so that's what I did :/
Dover beach has a melancholic tone, and following question number 4, the speaker is mournful because “the sea of faith” is dwindling. Faith is usually symbolized by some sort of light, and that “light” is “on the French coast,” “gleams and is gone;” the speaker seems to be religious and feels that faith/religion is “retreating” and has a “withdrawing roar” like it no longer has the certitude that it once instilled in its followers. The last section confuses me a bit, so if someone could shed some light that would be great. All I really got from it was something along the lines of a Valediction Forbidding Mourning, where the speaker and his love need to be different from other people, surrounded by a world that is “like a land of dreams,” perceived differently than it really is, and they must stay afloat by staying “true” to faith.
Church Going takes on a different viewpoint but it carries on the same theme of a fading participation/understanding to religion. I could not pin point the tone in this one as easily for some reason, I feel like he is concerned with where the church is heading, to become “grass, weedy pavement…” and believes that signing a book and donating money may not be enough. He also seems a bit hopeful and answers his own question of “what remains,” because he believes that people will be drawn to the church in search of something more.
I really like the ideas in both of these poems.
"Dover Beach" seems to me a love poem from a young man to his fiancee. He is writing to her about maybe how her father is taking his sweet time making a decision about their marriage or engagement. He is asking her to trust in them and her father to make a decision, alluding to the Napoleonic war between France and England which was taking place around the time the author Arnold was born. He wants her believe beyond hope that things will turn out well in the end even though they very well won't have a happy ending. He wants her to believe that not hearing from her father is good news, not bad news.
The linking factor is this idea of blind faith. The speaker in Dover Beach wants his love to believe that its possible for them to get married, even though it very well couldn't be. In "Church Going", the tone is much more apathetic and more dismissive.
The speaker in "Church Going" wants to have such a blind faith in a higher being, God being the chosen deity discussed in the poem. My favorite part of the poem is when the speaker has gone to a part of the church he probably shouldn't be in because it is reserved for the priest and reads something from last weeks sermon and "pronounce 'Here Endeth' much more loudly than I'd meant. The echoes snigger breifly..." This resonated with me because when I went to Europe this summer I spent a large amount of time singing in world famous cathedrals. My favorite and the most famous one I sang in was San Marco in Venice, Italy. There is nothing short in its echoes sniggering (it had an 18 second ring time). So I know how from experience how one small soud, perhaps accidentally tripping, laughing a little too loudly, or singing beautiful music from the mass can carry in a space that size. Obviously the speaker is in a much smaller church, hence the browning flowers amd last weeks sermon still on the stand, and is therefore less impressed; he even calls it a "barn" and a "house". If he'd been in San Marco, he wouldn't have been less insecure there is a God. He seems to want to experience some kind of blind faith and has chosen religion to be a way he could experience such a thing.
First of all, before I get into anything of greater depth, I just have to say that in Dover Beach, there’s a line that goes “Only, from the long line of spray where the sea meets the moon-blanched land, listen!” and I love, love, love, the description of sand at night as being moon-blanched. Alright, I’ll move on.
What struck me interesting about Dover Beach (other than the imagery, sorry, I’m a beach lover), was the transition in the piece from the literal ocean, to the sea of faith, to being faithful to one you love. It ends in musing about the natural world, to the emotional world. And even though, technically, an ocean doesn’t seem to have much in common with love, I think it makes a nice pairing in this case. The rolling, the confusion, the calm, the beauty…and I think it works better with the ocean at night because trusting a lover is like taking a step into the dark.
I think the major difference between the two pieces is tone. Churchgoing is more casual and conversational, versus Dover Beach, which is very elegant. I actually thought Churchgoing was a modern, contemporary poem until I checked the dates. I think how the speaker feels about churches is actually fairly complex. He seems to feel uncomfortable in there “the echoes snigger briefly”, but he comes here often: “Yet stop I did: in fact I often do, and always end much at a loss like this”. I think that part of him is attracted to the beautiful church, and the sort of aura that goes along with a religious building. He has a sort of reverence, and some scorn, it’s an interesting combination. He also seems like a man who is awkwardly trying to find his place in the world.
As others have pointed out, both poems discuss faith, but they are different types of faith in my opinion. Faith in religion and in God, is different than trusting a lover in a relationship. Not to say one is more important of course.
I find "Dover Beach" and "Church Going" have similar outlooks. Arnold expresses that faith is important but it is slipping away while Larkin expresses that without faith one loses his way. I find the tone of "Dover Beach" to be sadness, which shows that the speaker misses faith. I find the tone of "Church Going" to be somewhat frustration as well as abandonment, which shows the speakers longing for faith.
There are some among us, I believe, who would be well served to look up the definition of the word "short." Dover beach was confusing until it was revealed in the third paragraph that the sea represented faith, after which it made much more sense as a lament of the decline of religious fervor into a world where "ignorant armies clash by night."
The second I believe to be commenting on the decline of modern religous worship as well, but in a much more satyrical way and from the perspective of an unbeliever. One sign that he may be an athiest of some sort is in the last two lines where he mocks those who advocate religious practice because he says they do so only because "so many dead lie round."
Well the blog wouldn't let me post my last comment and it got destroyed, which maybe is a good thing since it may or may not have contained some libel directed towards those who don't comprehend the denotation of the word "short."
The two poems both appeared to be talking about the decline of religion in our modern world. Dover Beach however, appeared to be lamenting the decline into a world where there are "ignorant armies clashing in the night," and faithless "moon-blanched" people. Church going seemed to be satyrizing the decline of religion from the perspective of a nonbeliever. One sign that the speaker is agnostic comes at the end where he insinuates that the only reason people would be interested in religion is because there's "so many dead (people)."
I've rewritten my comment twice now (you think I'd learn to save) and the blog isn't letting me post.
First to Dover Beach:
When i first read this it appeared to me that this had to relate somehow personally to Matthew Arnold, so i looked up his timeline. He lived in the 1880's where vast technological leaps were commonplace. I think the unstable ground Arnold places faith in the poem may be a product of the thoelogical and mechanical revolutions. As Lindsay stated above something is lost in each generation and this period of massive change may have accentuated and accelerated the loss in faith. The speaker is in low spirits over this shift and relates the extinguished light on the beach to the disappeares of adherence.
The speaker of Church Going, to me, sounds a little cynical. He is not as resolute in the idea of faith as Dover Beach was. He dabbles with various perspectives before finally deciding, at the end, that church going is essential in introspective thought. Comprehension of profound ideas hinge on accepting divine existence.
Both ‘Dover Beach’ and ‘Church Going’ speak about faith, or as mentioned, belief and disbelief. The speakers of both poems contain similar ideas about faith but have slightly different perspectives. ‘Dover Beach’ creates a scene of a calm ocean night with receding waves, connecting to the metaphor of withdrawing faith of the world. The speaker feels that people are becoming more and more withdrawn from their once-strong faith and is disappointed at the fact. ‘Church Going’ also contains a similar, melancholy portrayal. The speaker also seems disappointed and saddened at the future of the churches. In visiting the church alone, the speaker generates a similar mood of ponderous and profound thinking. The tone of both poems is similar in nature but also different. Although addressing the same topic, the speaker of ‘Dover Beach’ is also addressing a presumed love, having a more gentle tone, whereas in ‘Church Going’, the speaker is by himself and provides a more in depth perspective of the situation, representing a more thoughtful tone. This allows the speaker of ‘Church Going’ to seem more pursuing in terms of the importance of faith, whereas the speaker of ‘Dover Beach’ seems to be resigned at the declining faith.
The poems relate, as some have said before me, in their descriptions of the decline of religious beliefs.
When I first read Church Going, I got the feeling that the speaker is awkwardly visiting the church, as sort of a ritual. A "tense, musty, unignorable silence," fills the church as the speaker sits in "awkward reverence." It seems as if he is in the building out of habit rather than a strong belief or feeling that he should be there. When he reflects that the place was "not worth stopping for," his tone seems to be melancholic, he is wondering what he looks for when he visits church each time. He also says "When Churches fall completely out of use," instead of "if" which portrays a belief at the eminent fall of the church.
The most interesting point of Church Going to me, however, is a subtle shift in the speakers tone towards the end of the piece. He says that in the church "all our compulsions meet, Are recognised, and robed as destinies..." His melancholy starts to seem to me less about the church, and more about the people that attend it. He says that people "gravitate with [a hunger] to this ground," this comment seems to me to be cynical of the superficiality of church that will lead to its imminent downfall. People come to church to satisfy a hunger or fulfill a destiny.
Okay, I spent two long on that one and kind of went in circles and still don't know exactly what I feel to be the right conclusion...
In the second poem, the author also appears to be melancholy. The speaker acknowledges the decline in faith, its "long, withdrawing roar." His belief that there is a decline in faith could correlate to Larkin's poem. Both express feelings that faith is declining, although they may express different reasons. Further, the speakers of both poems are both melancholic and pessimistic. Although I am not entirely sure of the tone shift in Church Going, and therefore am not sure of the speaker's feeling towards the apparent abandonment of faith, I am sure that the speaker of Dover Beach believes the lack of faith to be unfortunate.
Okay, I need to stop. Ready to discuss in class, I walk in circles too much
“Dover” tricked me; I thought it was going to simply be a poet-y way of describing a scene many of us are familiar with, a tranquil beach with rolling waves. But abruptly, near the end, the poem makes a bitter turn, addressing what the speaker sees to be as inevitable struggles of the human race. The ending is hopeless, and makes me conclude that Dover is less of a love poem and more of a heartbroken poem. Then again Arnold does key us in to his more forlorn feelings with the reminder of the good and bad, or the “turbid ebb and flow of human misery”. I think it would be very interesting to further research Arnold’s life, as Muhammad said, in order to make a connection to the poem’s more desolate outlook. I do think it is important to note that Arnold wrote this poem during the late romantic period, a time when artists rejected the technological advances of the industrial age, producing work to become closer to nature. The seaside descriptions, and the disillusionment expressed, agree with the sentiments of the time period.
I felt “Church Going” appropriately addressed the natural rise and fall of faith. The speaker describes feeling compelled to enter the church despite feelings the visits “always end much at a loss” (20). His tone is dubious, projecting disbelief, but at the same time he acknowledges he is the one who continually chooses to “step inside”. He describes the peace of the church, the “tense, musty, ignorable silence” as a type of serenity which he seeks, in an intuition he criticizes I felt I could see the speaker standing in the church, wavering between his pull to be in the church and his scorn of the “suburb scrub”. I delighted in the visual nature of the poet’s words, for this is what makes poetry worth it to me, when I can obtain a last image or thought from the poem.
Both poems address belief and disbelief in a more weathered sort of tone, more cynical in Church, and more dismal in Dover.
“Dover” tricked me; I thought it was going to simply be a poet-y way of describing a scene many of us are familiar with, a tranquil beach with rolling waves. But abruptly, near the end, the poem makes a bitter turn, addressing what the speaker sees to be as inevitable struggles of the human race. The ending is hopeless, and makes me conclude that Dover is less of a love poem and more of a heartbroken poem. Then again Arnold does key us in to his more forlorn feelings with the reminder of the good and bad, or the “turbid ebb and flow of human misery”. I think it would be very interesting to further research Arnold’s life, as Muhammad said, in order to make a connection to the poem’s more desolate outlook. I do think it is important to note that Arnold wrote this poem during the late romantic period, a time when artists rejected the technological advances of the industrial age, producing work to become closer to nature. The seaside descriptions, and the disillusionment expressed, agree with the sentiments of the time period.
I felt “Church Going” appropriately addressed the natural rise and fall of faith. The speaker describes feeling compelled to enter the church despite feelings the visits “always end much at a loss” (20). His tone is dubious, projecting disbelief, but at the same time he acknowledges he is the one who continually chooses to “step inside”. He describes the peace of the church, the “tense, musty, ignorable silence” as a type of serenity which he seeks, in an intuition he criticizes I felt I could see the speaker standing in the church, wavering between his pull to be in the church and his scorn of the “suburb scrub”. I delighted in the visual nature of the poet’s words, for this is what makes poetry worth it to me, when I can obtain a last image or thought from the poem.
Both poems address belief and disbelief in a more weathered sort of tone, more cynical in Church, and more dismal in Dover.
Church Going begins with a ton of imagery, both visual and auditory. The church is described vividly, and the feeling that the speaker feels out of place in a church is established in the first stanza with “another church” (implying that he’s seen many) and the awkward reverence in the 9th line. That he doesn’t quite know how to worship is telling that he is out of place. He nonchalantly explores the church and continues providing imagery, but with the tone of an observer rather than a participant. As he exits his uncaringness is stated clearly. From his displeasure comes the wondering of what will happen to churches after faith has left. Will they become mere tourist destinations for “children to touch a particular stone?” However, listing the reasons why the church was built (marriage, birth and death) leads the speaker to declare in the final stanza that churches can “never be obsolete.” This felt like a sudden tone shift to me. The speaker’s reverence was indeed awkward. He transitions from being an uncaring observer to a believer. Not necessarily a believer in the church, but at least its power to draw other’s in. He believes that faith will never die. The imagery itself shifts from the pure description of the church to hypotheticals and examples.
The beach itself is nearly empty in the first stanza of Dover Beach. However, the speaker gives a multitude of auditory imagery. The poems scope beings to expand, as the speaker explains these very sounds inspired Sophocles. The poem grows melancholic as the speaker recalls the Sea of Faith, a metaphor for the time when religion had reign and was “round earth’s shore.” But now it is gone, replaced by a roar. Finally, the speaker states that we “Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light.” Rather, we are in a dark age filled only in conflict. At first relaxed and calm, the poem becomes more longing until it reaches the final conclusion that the world is a dark place.
The tone of Dover Beach has similarities with that of Church Going. Both start out calm and relatively carefree, and move towards opposite decisions. Whereas both agree that this is a dark time for faith, in Dover Beach the speaker as he longs for its return. The speaker of Church Going, however, believes that religion will always have a place in society. Clear opposites, but both leave from being calm to caring about religion. The imagery used is vivid and literal in the beginning of both, progressing into more metaphorical grounds.
Also, A serious house on serious earth it is the subtitle to one of the greatest Batman graphic novels ever: Arkham Asylum: A serious house on serious earth
These two poems both concern faith and the waning of religious beliefs, but I felt that they had very different tones. Some of the previous posts helped me grasp their content better, so I’ll just focus on my impressions.
“Dover Beach” started off with beautiful imagery of a beach, and then in a lengthy metaphor compares “the Sea of Faith” to a receding ocean. I felt that the tone of Arnold’s piece was sort of lamenting and regretful. This sad atmosphere was created by the poetic but melancholic description of the sea, and diction such as “eternal note of sadness,” human misery,” and the line “But now I only hear / Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar.” This sadness seems personal to the speaker; I think that he has lost his belief. I agree with Emelia that the speaker of “Dover Beach” is a young man addressing his love. “Ah, love, let us be true to one another!” he exclaims. I think he sees the emptiness and barrenness left by the disappearance of faith, so he feels they should stay close together because each other is all they have left.
“Church Going” seemed to employ a more informal, almost apathetic tone. The speaker uses casual diction such as “brownish,” “stuff,” “brewed god knows how long,” “ruin-bibber,” etc. The topic of loss of belief is present here as well, as the speaker contemplates his lack of genuine reason to go to the church and the apparently inevitable abandonment of the church. I think that the speaker in “Church Going” is somewhat sorrowful like the speaker of “Dover Beach” and longing for faith, but he is more cynical.
Holy cow. I thought I posted here last night, but apparently I was too tired and didn't actually submit. Wow. AND I didn't save my blog post. Good thing I decided to check this morning. My late streak continues again.
well, here we go. SORRY MR. DUNCAN. D: I SERIOUSLY DID THIS LAST NIGHT.
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The topic and theme around both poems is the lack of religious faith in today's society. However, the way that the two show that religion is missing are vastly different. Arnold's "Dover Beach" uses metaphors dealing with bodies of water to show that faith in God is quickly dwindling while Larkin's "Church Going" is almost a narrative describing the thoughts of a guy standing in the middle of the church as he ponders the future and the now of religion.
I did a little background research on Arnold. He lived during the 1800s, when industrialization was raging through Europe and America. During this time, many people stopped going to church and believing in God. They became skeptical; what God would place them in such horrible, dirty, and dangerous conditions like factories? Added to this skepticism was many scientific discoveries that gave alternate explanations to how the Earth and the organisms on it came to be, such as Darwin and his theory of evolution. Arnold, a deeply religious fellow, expresses his woe at the lack of faith in "Dover Beach". He relates the waves and the water to religion. What was once the "Sea of Faith" is now unseeable; the speaker can only hear "is melancholy, long, withdrawing roar" (lines 21, 25). His tone is mournful, reflective, and yearns for the past. It is almost like Arnold believes that faith has died, and now he is remembering it in this poem.
Larkin's tone is much less sad; it's almost indifferent. The speaker in "Church Going" seems to just make an observation and give a mental shrug about it. He speculates on what may happen in the future and sees that faith will be extinct. Churches will be like the Roman Colosseum -- just another site to see. They will just be another place of superstition that people come to when they're desperate. He seems almost flippant about the church. The speaker comes in, pretends to be a pastor or something reciting lines at the lectern.
Both have vivid imagery. In "Dover Beach", I can imagine the moon light night, and somebody staring sadly out at the ocean. In "Church Going", I can see the speaker in the middle of the church, quoting a few lines, then shivering at the echoes that are produced.
Both poems have a focus on religion. I agree with Bryn that Church Going seems more formal and sophisticated, which is caused by differences in diction. However, the poems do have different outlooks, and seem to suggest different things. "Church Going" discusses the inevitable extinction of religion with what can only be described as indifference. "Grass, weedy pavement, brambles, buttresses, sky" will be the only remnants of religion, but nothing will be different, as these things existed before. "Dover Beach" laments the lack of faith. Without faith, the speaker says, we are as "ignorant armies" fighting our way through darkness.
I thought this got posted on time, guess not... well here it is again
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I enjoyed reading both these poems, as both of them share a common theme of lack of faith.
In both poems, the central theme is depicted by the use of imagery. “Dover Beach” describes a night scene at a beach, “The tide is full, the moon lies fair” (2) from the beginning of the speaker provides images of the night. Dover Beach is written in such a way that it adequately connects “the sea of faith” to the faith of the one you love. The speaker, using vivid imagery, connects the natural world to the emotional love acquired by people. “Ah, love, let us be true To one another! For the world which seems” (29-30), the speaker dwells upon the beach as it is represented as his love. The mysteriousness of the ocean is the perfect metaphor to describe love, as the ocean has no mood and is confusing and free, just like the lack of love portrayed by the speaker.
The tone of “Dover Beach” and “Church Going” are very different. “Church Going” is spoken is much more of a conversational tone than “Dover Beach”, which is just text presented to the audience in a simple manner. Unlike “Dover Beach”, “Church Going” is a more complex poem, shown in the way the speaker descries the church. The beach is described very freely, but the church is described in a somewhat forceful manner. “From where I stand, the roof looks almost new- cleaned, or restored? Someone would know: I don’t” (11-12), because the speaker does not know if the roof is clean or not it shows the confusing perspective of the church. The speaker feels very disappointed every time he visits the church, as if it is not in his regular routine. Both these poems are about faith; “Dover Beach” is about faith in your love, while “Church Going” expands on the faith of God. Without this faith the speaker feels lost in the world.
while both dover beach and church going deal with the same basic message regarding the death of religion and loss of faith, both go a bout it a bit differently. the tone in dover beach is more melancholy and mournful towards the death of religion and self faith while church going has more of an apathetic feeling towards religion.
Dover beach uses heavy metaphors to get ist point accross with the ocean and light, and the armies firghting in the dark. Church going is more down to earth if you will, the narration of one person feelng disconected and apathetic towards his religon with lines such as "some brass and stuff" show that he does not have any real interest in the church
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